Fancy Scientist Podcast #125: Facts Don’t Change Minds: What Actually Works in Science Communication

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Are you somebody who really cares about wildlife and conservation and you’re trying to get people to change their behavior? Reduce their carbon footprint? Get them to not litter? Or keep their cats indoors to save birds?

Whether it’s getting people to switch to clean energy sources or eating less meat to help save the planet, all of these things all require human behavior change, and the foundation of such change is communication.

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A lot of people tend to think we just need to educate people more – that people have a deficiency in knowledge, and that if only we could get people to understand the data and studies like we do, then they would see the error in their ways. But as we’ve seen with well-researched topics with lots of supporting data and studies like climate change and vaccines, this is not true. There is more to it! We need effective communication, which requires dialogue.

"I want you to reframe it (arguments) as a debate. But even more than that, can you think about it as a dance?"

This week’s podcast is inspired by two events: (1) the results of the 2024 election here in the United States where we saw the public vote for an administration that is anti-environment and science and (2) the aftermath of me reading an eye-opening, enlightening, and highly entertaining book on the subject of rethinking by social scientist Adam Grant: Think Again.

In this episode I talk about how to be a more effective communicator, get people to rethink their opinions and values (including yourself!), and teach you how to have productive, engaging, and useful debates with people who think, at times, very differently than you. I am living proof it is possible!

"You're simply asking them to explain what it is that they believe, why it is that they believe that how things work...this activates a cycle of rethinking within themselves, and it also serves the benefit of helping you understand."

The lessons shared largely come from the book Think Again, but also my own personal experience engaging with and even being friends with people from “the other side.” You’ll learn how to reframe your perspective on arguments so you don’t feel exhausted, angry, or drained, how effective listening is critical in debate, and how providing nuance, multiple perspectives, and humility can make you more effective in changing minds.

Often when we talk about working with wildlife, we think about it from the animal’s perspective and studying the species, but in reality, almost all of the conservation solutions with declining biodiversity have to do with interventions on the human side. Want to save wolves? We need to reduce poaching. Want to save monarchs? We need to get people to plant more milk weed and reduce habitat loss. These things require interventions on the human side.

"Many communicators try to make themselves look smart. Great listeners are more interested in making their audience feel smart."
- Adam Grant in Think Again

So if you are someone who works in science or conservation, or are simply someone who wants to create more positive change in the world, then this episode is for you!

"What works is not perspective taking, but perspective seeking actually talking to people to gain insight into the nuances of their views."
- Adam Grant, Think Again

Specifically I talk about:

Why it’s important to engage in debate and that it doesn’t have to be hostile, exhausting, or heated
How debate makes us stronger leaders and better scientists
How spirited discussions helped Disney create Pixar’s The Incredibles that went on to win two Oscars
How to reframe arguments into debates and learn how to dance rather than fight
Common “don’ts” and mistakes that many people make that close people off and cause them to dig more into their original beliefs
How to motivate someone to share information with you
Why facts alone don’t work in changing minds
That asking questions activates a rethinking cycle in your debate partner (and yourself!)
Why listening is critical to getting people to open up and be receptive
How the “vaccine whisperer” got people to vaccinate their children through non-judgemental empowerment and listening
That binary or black and white thinking can actually cause people to move away from your cause
How uncertainty and humility can make you more effective in changing minds
And more!

Resources and Sources in Facts Don't Change Minds:

Purchase Think Again by Adam Grant from a local bookstore through Bookshop.org

Fancy Scientist Podcast #123: Conversations and Connections: Tips for Navigating Conservation Post Election

Fancy Scientist podcast #61: Handling the Haters in Science Communication

And make sure you sign up for my next free training!

Stephanie Manka

Stephanie Manka, Ph.D. is a wildlife biologist with 20 years of experience in mammal ecology and conservation, education, and outreach. Read her story to find out how she went from the daughter of a jeweler to a Ph.D. in wildlife biology.

April 8, 2025